Sir Steven Runciman - Interview on Byzantium and Orthodoxy

This is the interview given by Sir Steven Runciman in 1994, its an interview that never made it into the television, but it now exists on the internet since the journalists who interviewed him thought of it as one of the most important of their careers.

When did you first visit the Holy Mountain?

In 1936 it happened I was traveling with a boat to Kavala, which came close to the coast of Athos. The monks aproached us with boats to help us. I could have gone ashore but the boatmaster insisted that we should continue our course towards kavala and he prevented me.
I was really angry with him and replied in perfect Greek.When I get angry, you know, I speak greek flawesly…In 1952 I made my first visit at the Mountain, which was really short termed.Then I had a second one, in the same decade, but I was sad because everything seemed In a state of decay. Later on it was wonderfull to come back here seeing the living rebirth. It is now for me a great joy to be here, because this fact re-establishes trust in the godfriendly human nature.

Which was your motive, that drove you in allmost all of your life studing the Byzantine civilisation?

Many reasons moved me. When I was 7-8, I began learning ancient greek because I liked the classical greek language. At the same time I was fascinated by the medieval times and none then cared about medieval greece.
thus I decided to have as my main interest the medieval hellenism.
Greece and her neighbouring Balkan countries, as well as the crusades which were totally catastrophic, with the outcome of the destruction of the Eastern Roman state and the enslavement of the eastern christianity.

Have you met someone who helped you specialise in byzantine studies?

When I began studing, the top byzantinologist was proffesor doctor bury, an academic which was concentrated on classical greece and afterwards byzantium. But he was a lonely person and he didn’t wish to have students. Also he didn’t like that he was forced to make me his student.
I was having a hard time meeting him. I first met him in his office at cambridge, he was the most famous history proffesor there and he tried to demotivate me. In the end he told me that I would waste my time studing eastern europe and medieval times, unless if I knew Slavic language. It happened that I knew by myself Russian, and eventualy he had to accept me. Allthought it wasn’t allways easy to aproach him. Due to his age and sickness he was absent from his office, that is why I used to send him notes and questions at his house, which never made it to his hands. Later on someone told me that ms Bury believed that mr Bury shouldn’t pay attention to these kind of stuff and thus he destroyed what I gave him. With time I learned that they used to walk each morning around Cambridge and I was lurking untill he would pass, he used to like having some company on his strall.
I used to acompany him holding a notebook and asking relative stuff. And he had indeed great knowledge and a fast mind. He never needed to go back to the texts and studies in order to answer because he allways knew what to answer. In case he didn’t remember or didn’t know something, he sended me after some time his scientific response. Unfortunately he was the first and only teacher of mine.
After some time I got sick as well and left Cambridge, later on when I came back he was dead. After that I had to be alone in the whole subject.

Today what does the average european knows about byzantium?

The average european is learning more about it, since today there are many byzantinologists. In Britain, every year we organise a byzantine conference with great participation of interested people.
as well in our universities students display an increased interest.
And in the European continent, in France and Germany there were allways schools about Byzantium, which was relatively small, but I have the feeling that also there the interest is getting bigger. In United States, there is an institution which is “gifted”, at washington DC, at dumbarton oaks. This institute was founded by a millionare american who was “in love” with the temple of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. When I met her she was the wife of some American ambasidor. Later we met in London and she had dinner with my parrents. She asked me which was my field of work and I replied byzantinologist. And afterwards she told me that it was a thing that she was interested in and that she was planing to create this institution at dumbarton oaks. For all these I feel that in the duration of my long life, I used to see Byzantium to be concidered as something dark and unknown, while today having many students I believe that it will become even more known.

how do various people in europe and america percieve the byzantine civilisation?

For the time being, this civilisation hasn’t entered their concience yet. But now in various univeristies its not a subject that people neglect. Contrary its something that grows constantly, while in my years it was allmost unknown, but knowing this pleases me and gives me courage for the future.

How do people of Western feel about the Holly Mountain? How do they see it?

I think that for them it’s a weird place and naturaly women do not understand anything about the Holy Mountain. Ofc visitors that come here go back excited and you now have an admiror, prince Charles, which much wants and is pleased to stay close to you.

this is why he recently remained in Vatopaidi for three nights?

Yes, he pretended he was unable to leave due to the bad weather, but things are much different.
He had told to the people of the yaught that carried him that they should go to Thassos and wait for him, because supposingly there was bad weather and indeed he had a great time.

What do you believe about the presence of Orthodoxy in modern Europe?

Some times I feel very dissapointed by the other churches of the west. But I am happy in the thought that in the next 100 years the Orthodox Church will be the only historical church that will exist.The anglican church is in a very bad shape, the romancatholic is constantly loosing ground.
But luckyly there is the Orthodox Church. It makes a great impresion on me the amount of those who accept orthodoxy and infact in britain.
I believe it offers the real spirituality that other churches cannot transmite anymore.
all these lead me to the conclusion that Orthodoxy will be there on contrast to the others.

What do you believe that Orthodoxy can offer to a united Europe and generaly to the world?

I will tell you, I doubt that we will ever have a united europe, or a united world.
But I think that the problem of unity of peoples, orthodoxy offers a very nice solution, because first it doesn’t display ethnicism. And because it gives much more wide and free oppinions in contrast to the romancatholic church. All these fill me with belief that orthodoxy has infront of her a very sure and good future.

Which Byzantine person you admire the most and why?

This is a very difficult question… I am interested in so many personalities but I tend to admire the most some religious men. Generaly, the non-spiritual but important men of Byzantium aren’t for me worthy of admiration, ofc they truly contributed. But I think that spiritual achievements are more wonderfull
They have gaven many things and services to the european civilisation.

In the monastery of vatopaidi, the well known and defender of Orthodoxy, Gregorious Palamas began as a monk, remaining here for three years. The Church and the ones of the Holy Mountain admire him a lot and honour him, what does the west believes about him?

I will tell you, there is still some preoccupation towards palamites, those who accept his theology.
for me personaly his dogmas rest me.

Would you support the idea of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople being open again as a place of orthodox worship?

I would really like that, but I doubt if something like that could ever happen.
But it would make me really happy.

Which do you think that it’s the fifth element of the byzantine empire during her ages-long history?

I think that I should give an answer that would take plenty of time, in short the Byzantine allways maintained –even if in some cases they didn’t completely succed- a high spiritual level and I think that this is probably the fith element, the most important element. And I would point out that it’s a very wide and free religious level. For example the Byzantine missions in Europe encouraged the publication of holy scripts in the language of the new christians. Something like this, Rome would never had made. Its one of the things among others that I admire Byzantines for.

We believe that the Holy Mountain is the continuence of that Byzantine tradition

ofc

… and we feel good with the progress of the modern Holy Mountain monastic life.

Naturaly this rebirth justifies the hopes of many of us.
here someone feels what orthodoxy really meant for the Byzantine rulers and the people.
Indeed there is a rebirth.

some claim –and we would like sir runciman your oppinion as you are an expert- that ancient greece was too glorious and a wonderful civilisation, a thing that cannot be doubted, while the byzantine civilisation was a dark period of the medieval that pushes people way.
tell us something about that.

Allways I protest against this position! In Byzantium there was a high morality!
About the Byzantine art, I believe that it was never judged correctly. I personaly believe that some Byzantine mosaics are much more beautifull than ancient statues of classical times.There has been a lot of noise about the elgyn marbles. They don’t cause admiration to me, I would prefer older pieces of art like the “kores”. I would never like to have statues of complitely realistic types, totally “human”. I would be excited if they had a spiritual dimention, like the so expressive “expresionist” Byzantine creations that are unique and allmost unrepeated. Something that happened during my life was the apriciation of various Byzantine arts and the reduction of paying attention only to the art of the golden age of Athens.

We thank you a lot for your noble mood to talk with us, and we hope that the gods taking_care will gift you some years more so you can give to all those who follow your steps, which in turn will prove that Byzantium is life and its hard was and will be Orthodoxy.

Yes, certainly, I am allready 97 and I do not know if I can contribute anything else, but I was refreshed with this visiting of the holy mountain.

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